Most DDs run when they see you and you have those baby smokes that let you disengage whenever you want to if the need arises. From what I've heard, Daring is the new Akizuki, in that IFHE is almost a required skill. Did recent changes nerf my fire chance to oblivion? If you have an angled target, you should fire HE and wait for the fire. From the most recent version, unless you’re a Jutland/Daring or high tier secondary spec German BB, if your optimal build includes IFHE now it will after the changes. That is going to drop their stock fire chance from 13% to 6.5%. Mid tier 127mm ships will need IFHE to pen mid tier cruiser and battleship plating but won’t be able to pen any high tier plating, and high tier 130mm ships will need it to pen high tier cruisers. It can be made to work without it, but as you've mentioned, there's only so much your improved AP angles can do. One in particular I was in Jutland fighting another Jutland, in what ended up being a complete 1v1 from equal health, I hit him with 105 shells for 26k, and he hit me with 55 shells in the same time for 26k (he had IFHE). With the new IFHE rework coming tommorow, I wanted reddit's opinion on what build would be best for the Daring now. 19,500,000. I found it was much less effective against DD's though. Cruiser. The second is First is just replacing IFHE with RL and calling it a day. You really want IFHE as she can't even pen T10 BB superstructure armor without it. Your 113mm guns have a base HE penetration of less than 19mm, which means that at T10, you are unable to penetrate even the majority of DD armor. Normally im lobbing shells over a mountain so I dont need to "hide", and t10 cvs scare me more than getting spotted by anything else. 1200 to 3k volleys using AP in Jutland is normal. I get that WG wants to make the mid-section of cruisers more resistant to getting overmatched as this intent was communicated a very long time ago. Premium. Daring has no trouble gunning down both of them and most DDs try to avoid you anyways. While Heavy cruisers and BBs stand must to benefit... As of the current version of changes, yes, but I’d wait until WG decides it’s final and it goes to the live server. uhm... how do you not pen superstructure with AP? IFHE isn’t a “good” choice on Daring, it is an absolute necessity. Just use AP and rely on HE solely for fires, not direct damage. T8-10 light cruisers with 152 & 155 mm guns will now be able to penetrate up to 39 and 40 mm of armor with IFHE. Edit: Or Last Stand The others still get over the 60mm threshold for Russian and German BB nose plating and IJN decks, and the German BB decks (except FdG) for the UK 234s, but you’re going to be losing a decent amount of fire chance compared to the current version. There were a number of occasions I thought I would have done much better with IFHE. PT, PM, LS and SE are nobrainers for the other points. Out of 290 hits I set 0 (zero) fires. Could you imagine that horror? Her armament changes, between two dual and one single 113mm gun mounts on the base hull, … IFHE nerf is a total disaster that reflecy yet again the big gun only mentality WG had if it screw all the small and 152 T7 or under - so be it -you should not and will not be allowed the play Edited April 10, 2020 by Mechfori At first glance, these 114mm guns seem like the old Akizuki weapons: without IFHE, the HE shells cant even damage Destroyer hulls. Apart from Concealment Expert IFHE used to be the most important skill for DDs with 120mm guns … I usually set a minimum of 10. The higher the tier, and the smaller your guns are, (typically, smaller guns = lower base fire chance) the less of an effect the change has, after all the calculations are done to get your actual fire chance. Some of the current ship specific IFHE builds (IFHE Hindy, IFHE Azuma/Yoshino, IFHE Drake/Goliath, IFHE Henri) will still be viable but won’t be as optimized anymore. A lot of cruiser players underestimate my guns and broadside me, so may as well make use of AP. A ship has to be both a military base and a combat vehicle, since it is designed for long autonomous operations. I have seen some reviews and Daring has some very nice AP epn angles and solid AP dmg. Now that IFHE isn't manditory, their are a few different builds I can think of. Just shoot Ap on dd and HE on bb to start fire. Assuming a T10 target with DCM1, and no bonus fire chance signals on Smolensk, I came up with: So the percentage differences are still significant, but the actual differences are less than they appear at first glance. No. It has all of the good characteristics of its lower tier predecessors, while also addressing several annoyances that essentially all the lower tier ships suffer from. 130 mm guns will likely be able to penetrate 27 mm plating with IFHE, while 127 mm guns will not until T8. Jutland and Daring need IFHE now to pen destroyer plating but won’t after the change, and IFHE won’t get them over any cruiser plating (or superstructure) thresholds after the changes so they’re getting a straight buff - four extra commander points plus higher fire chance for the same gun effectiveness. You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section. The Winners of this change are T10 CAs (although again it isn't a huge win), the Moskva and Stalingrad specifically, and funnily the Jutland and Daring, who now get to pen 19mm without IFHE, freeing up 4 points for each of them. 19mm is also less than the armor of super structure of BBs, not having IFHE means you can’t deal effective damage to them at all. I meant to write IHFE. I tried it for 10 games and when you get favourable angles it's fantastic. They will have to offer a re-spec when it goes live for those that need to drop it. Non-IFHE 100mm still works well, and truely is a flamethrower, but you can't harass cruisers like you can with IFHE. I have IFHE on Daring (T10 RN DD). Sunny and 85f every day. Mid tier cruisers will still need it to pen mid tier battleship and high tier cruiser plating (but won’t be able to pen high tier battleship plating with or without) and high tier cruisers need it to pen high tier battleship plating. The IFHE changes haven’t gone through yet, but lots of hits with few to no fires is still possible with poor rng since fire chance is calculated on a per shell basis and affected by a bunch of different factors so it actually isn’t the ‘chance of causing fires’ value in port. So, if you have a broadside target, you should fire AP. Jutland is a BEAST with AP. All this "BB superstructure" people say about is REALLY easy to hit. Battleship. IFHE was too strong in combination with certain ships. 1 End Flagship of the Fog. Now that those DDs are almost out for a week, I wonder whether I need IFHE on those ships. Such changes were required in order to carefully adjust the balance of selected warships. The recent patch buffed IFHE for calibers below 139mm, which naturally made people speculate if running it on the Khaba was worth it. 6 - Ark Royal 8 - Indomitable. If you still think you need IFHE, do the math on how much armor you can pen with your guns and IFHE and wonder if its worth it. I have IFHE and I do fine without RPF. Should I respec the captain or … WoWS: PT, IFHE, HE shells penetration, and balance changes February 27, 2020 February 27, 2020 ~ Sebastianul On the second stage of 0.9.2 Public test, we’ve changed the characteristics of several ships, having analyzed their combat performance and taken player feedback into account. For the OP. Did recent changes nerf my fire chance to oblivion? Without it you're going to struggle to damage anything that knows how to angle. Your 113mm guns have a base HE penetration of less than 19mm, which means that at T10, you are unable to penetrate even the majority of DD armor. I also run RPF, so I don't have BFT or AR, but I find the info from RPF infinitely more useful than a slight bump to my rate of fire considering my DPM burns down DDs anyway. Daring gets 4 extra commander points and 1% extra fire chance since it no longer needs IFHE. Heavy cruisers like Baltimore and Buffalo use 27mm, light cruisers like Cleveland and Mogami use 25mm which is also very common for midtier BBs. There was one game where I was shooting at a Midway and only after 50 or so shatters I lit her on fire, and that is frustrating. ". High tier german secondary specs take IFHE now so the smaller caliber secondaries pen 32mm but they will pen 32mm without after (another four commander points plus higher fire chance buff). Jerk. All the T8-10 French DD's will now be able to pen 30mm with IFHE - I'd happily give up 1/3 of my fire chance for that, it's a pretty decent buff. Don’t ask me why with IFHE you get on average as many fires as without IFHE… Gunboats. With 19 pt captain you can have 3 4pt skills, Missing AR and BFT means losing quite a bit of firepower, I dont use ifhe, you never overpen destroyers with AP and with improved angles the ap can easily get lots of super structure hits, the only time i use he is to set a fire...since you set them so quick, then im back to ap...think of it as a mini minotaur...minitaur. Why not use IFHE and RPF? Feb 10, 2020 22:30 Henri still gets over the 50mm threshold but that was more useful in competitive and Henri has fallen out of favor in that regard somewhat after the engine boost changes. 19mm is also less than the armor of super structure of BBs, not having IFHE means you can’t deal effective damage to them at all. Streaming at https://www.twitch.tv/notser around 17:00 UTC/2:00pm ESTChapayev on Hotspot moves out to engage the enemy around A point. What have we done to deserve this, Wargaming? With current mechanics, it's pretty well worth the investment since you can have both pen and decent fire chance. I 1v2'd a pair of jutlands in a division yesterday in my Grozovoi from under 5.5k because they refused to swap to HE and kept pounding bounces into me while I consistently just plowed my 4 front guns into them until they died. This is not true anymore, Jutland and daring can now HE pen dd hull armour without IFHE ever since the IFHE rework. I didn't realize that it's the WoWs thread until it got pointed out. With the changes way Akizuki and others get 4 captain skill points back to invest in AFT or RPF or whatever, but HIV is no longer head and shoulders above the other TX cruisers in competitive. Ryuu You literally cannot do anything against a competently played and angled player with the AP, though, and that is the point SAT made above. There is no rounding ability there. All that sun and nice weather has effected my brain. Beautiful white sand powder beach..... and then I come back to Canada and my brain goes boom! Mar 11, 2020 #29,719 Quick question. I personally went for RPF because it’s too powerful skill to pass up on.… Continue reading From my experience on the Daring, having IFHE gives you a lot of confidence when it comes to damaging DDs and BB superstructures, as DDs had already learned to angle (!) Like pre-buff Akizuki, lacking RPF is probably easier to work around than lacking IFHE. So I respecced for IFHE and consistently performed much better. Out of 290 hits I set 0 (zero) fires. I thought it was still being tested. Radar and IFHE are the worst inventions since CVs and CBs are basically their hostages. In short, although you can crush against poorly angled ships with AP, for consistent results against quality players you need IFHE. I feel it is subpar having to take IFHE, and have gotten to the point I don't think the Jutland or Daring are worth playing right now because of this. Harugumo sits atop the IJN "gunboat" line of destroyers, encapsulating and building upon the design elements and game play of the ships preceding her; namely the Tier VIII and IX ships, Akizuki and Kitakaze.Armed with ten 100 mm rifles and a single sextuplet torpedo launcher, she is a ship of absolutes; she has the highest base hit points of all Tier X destroyers, has an … I'm mocking you BECAUSE you just came back from somewhere nice and sunny. IFHE is essential. Most DD's around T7-9 are significantly improved with IFHE - they're getting nerfed. I have IFHE on Daring (T10 RN DD). Halland is the pinnacle of the pan-European destroyer line, offering an interesting take on the smoke-less torpedo-focused destroyer concept. After the IFHE nerfs will it even make sense to keep it on some ships like Smolensk and Daring? The Daring class ships were the last and the largest British destroyers carrying torpedo tubes and artillery guns. Changes dont go into affect until next patch... CL are the worst off ship.. The AA upgrade and IFHE work wonders (my cleveland shatters about 1/8 shots on t10 bbs compared to almost 1/2 without IFHE). With IFHE it changes to exactly 39mm. Aircraft Carrier. Their main battery comprised of 114 mm guns mounted in enhanced dual-purpose turrets. I prefer the AP only version but the moment DDs start angling you do nothing to them, and as a DD you need to win your initial battle at the cap. But after you have to choose one or the other, and imo the utility of fires is too great to pass. And yes, it takes too much time to burn a Stalingrad. My old build was. I feel like RPF makes me play better and win more easily, but IFHE enables me to do more damage. And not knowing where that Shima is in is also a big problem. So I massively out played him, yet the AP was not giving the results that would win the battle. Just finished a battle with my Smolensk. Yep, 100% agree. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the WorldOfWarships community. The IFHE reduction to fire chance doesn't really matter considering the volume of shells you're hitting with. (This part is likely wrong but shouldn't really matter due to no armor thresholds at 29mm and 38mm) Where they will be affected is the 50% reduction in fire chance on the IFHE skill. Otherwise I would have been stuck at the resort for another two days. Like pre-buff Akizuki, lacking RPF is probably easier to work around than lacking IFHE. That's why you don't bring Zaos but IFHE Henris. Daring's best concealment is 6.0km, which isn't bad unless you face Shima or a legendary mod Gearing. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, "Players are players, plans are words, and words are wind. With guns. The Daring is a fun ship to play and can do really well in the right hands. I think it is still in testing. A game about huge boats. I still use AP a lot, but I get a fire going on larger ships before switching, and I only do it when I have the right angles. Sorry to hijack the thread - but do these answers also apply to the Jervis? #3. You are supposed to use mostly AP and I get why some people are struggling, because all other DDs use almost all HE. Zihuatanejo, Mexico. There is one subtle difference, however, with the AP rounds. What are your thoughts on this? Because HE pen depends on being equal to the armour now, whereas in the past, it depended on being - greater - than the armour. But if I don't take RPF, the Daring has some serious problem with the concealment: you get outspotted by Shimakaze and before you can spot her, the enemy is already firing on you. It was so bohemian. With IFHE halving your fire chance, 60mm meme pen builds will also likely be not great moving forward. They feel like shooting sparrows with cannons. See also: Damage Saturationfor an in-depth explanation. I have the IFHE skill. On the second stage of 0.9.2 Public test, we've changed the characteristics of several ships, having analyzed their combat performance and taken player feedback into account. Ok they both have improved AP (US angles, same as DM), so while you can take IFHE, it isn't an optimum build. I never saw need to run IFHE on the Russian 130mm. And you want to use HE to set fire anyway. I must have pissed off the RNG Gods for sure! No worries, so yeah the new fire penalty is a big deal. By Ifhe lets you pen 19mm of armour, but i dont even find myself using HE. My bad. I'm only in the jutland so far myself, but I feel that without the IFHE I'm very much a one trick pony that have to rely on AP, and sure it is really good but if I just want to AP spam I might as well go over to my RN CL ships.So for my next skill I will go for IFHE to open up options in my play. I've gone back and forth. Actually the situation was much better before the Wooster was released. Daring — British Tier X destroyer. ... Quick question. Which isn't exactly worthwhile. Only Jutland and Daring have the 113mm guns that cannot HE pen DD hull and have improved AP angles. Also you really don't need JoaT as the smokes come back very quickly and you are taking up valuable points that could be used for skills like Adrenaline Rush. Jutland is the tier 9 British destroyer and is a development on the play style of her predecessor, Lightning in the role of a defensive destroyer. I really wanted Jutland and Daring to work without IFHE, the AP pen angles are very appealing. What did you do to incur the wrath of RNGesus? RNG can play hell with fires. Never submarines, they said. With IFHE I find I'm doing about the same damage to BB superstructures as with AP, plus I get fires. IFHE is a must if you want to do well in Daring. Press J to jump to the feed. The only ship I can get close to similar damage as fast is Kitakaze using HE and her reload is 2.6 with my current setup. I've been learning to play without IFHE in anticipation for the changes. IFHE isn’t a “good” choice on Daring, it is an absolute necessity. Target was already on fire from somebody else. True but on ships that are used to setting a lot of fires are going to notice a difference. It depends. PT - AR - LS - BFT - SI - CE - IFHE. And how much damage are you doing with AP at the same angle and distance? What is completely unneccessary is screwing over a bunch of ships in the process. Just look ingame and the HE pen values of stock jutland and daring are shown. These 2, however, honestly you're better off sticking with AP. Basically I consider CE, IFHE and RPF all essential to support my aggressive playstyle. This is the reason why IFHE was neccessary for the old Akizuki and is now a common pick for Jutland and Daring. The dots are incredibly valuable on larger ships, and the HE is so incredibly consistent against DD's. Therefore a significant portion of the ship's interior space is needed for the every-day activities, but has no direct effect … Especially since their stated goal for the IFHE rework was to make IFHE less mandatory and yet all of only four or five (I think) ships will it no longer be mandatory for. From what I've heard, Daring is the new Akizuki, in that IFHE is almost a required skill. For DDs, I think the Japanese 100mm take the largest hit. HE is far more reliable than hoping the enemy remains broadside. So I should dump IFHE on Daring and use the points elsewhere and keep it on Smolensk? 180mm/6 is exactly 30mm. Des Moines gets 30 mm side armor instead of 27 mm. However, the Atlanta's alpha damage against battleships will not suffer, as she wil still have 26 mm of penetration with IFHE. Daring and Jutland are obviously getting buffed. Sharing my thoughts and recommendations for the full release of RN DDs. Paired with it, it has a very nice fire chance. 3 - Dreadnought 6 - Warspite 7 - Hood 7 - Nelson 7 - Duke of York 8 - Vanguard 10 - Thunderer. 25 and 27mm is the usual cruiser armor on tier 8 and 9. And was a burden on others because 4 captain skill points became a mandatory spend. References to specific designs, models, manufacturers, and/or modifications of ships and aircraft are used only for the purpose of historical consistency and do not assume any funding or other involvement in the project on the part of the holders of trademarks. I just came back from vacation. I've had some strange games but 290 hits for no fires seems to stretch even RNG. After the IFHE rework, new Daring is now even stronger because it no longer needs IFHE (since it gives him basically nothing) and it frees up 4 more points which you can use on RPF or BFT+PT or Torp rld+ PT. From this point onward it has been a steady downward spiral. Jutland and Daring need IFHE now to pen destroyer plating but won’t after the change, and IFHE won’t get them over any cruiser plating (or superstructure) thresholds after the changes so they’re getting a straight buff - four extra commander points plus higher fire chance for the same gun effectiveness. I have the IFHS skill. Yup, just missed it! I usually set a minimum of 10. STINKWEED_, March 3, 2020 in General Game Discussion. It can be made to work without it, but as you've mentioned, there's only so much your improved AP angles can do. If you just got back, and you're in Ontario you missed the actual 3 days of winter we had last week lol. IFHE secondaries results look like: 100 hits, 40000 dmg from secondaries, 8 fires standard secondaries look like: 100 hits, 8000 dmg from secondaries, 8 fires I tested today. PT, IFHE, HE shells penetration, and balance changes. Though she currently holds the top spot for Average Experience and Win Rate on the NA Server 1 , she also only has a fraction of the battles that the other destroyers have. So it seems like if you want to be able to damage anything with HE you are forced to take IFHE which really limits your build options. 2 - Medea 3 - Valkyrie 4 - Wakeful 5 - Acasta 6 - Icarus 7 - Jervis 8 - Lightning 9 - Jutland 10 - Daring. Just finished a battle with my Smolensk. My Tashkent does fine without it, and having 2 more 3pt skills is more important to me than penning 28mm. 'S pretty well worth the investment since you can have both pen and decent fire chance to oblivion truely a... Opinion on what build would be best for the Daring is the pinnacle of the pan-European destroyer,... Damage to BB superstructures as with AP with cannons to choose one or the other points deserve,. 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